由“アミジノ基”发现的大争论

rikokushin · 发表于 2007-5-12 16:37:16

由“アミジノ基”发现的大争论

アミジノ基
对应英文是
amidino
按照常理应该是“脒基”的
但是由于是台湾的客户，所以到台湾的国立编译馆上确认了一下
居然是“甲脒基”的解释
就google，发现了如下两个有趣的网页

[ 本帖最后由 rikokushin 于 2007-5-17 16:34 编辑 ]

rikokushin · 发表于 2007-5-12 16:37:51

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<TD vAlign=bottom align=left width="33%">3:18am Apr 21, 2006</TD>
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<TH bgColor=#cccc99 colSpan=2>English to Chinese translations [Non-PRO] Science - Chemistry; Chem Sci/Eng</TH></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffec8b>English term or phrase: Carbamimidoyl，脒基还是甲脒基？</TD></TR>
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<TD>Carbamimidoyl是翻译成“脒基”还是“甲脒基”？ 我认为Carbamimidoyl应翻译成“脒基”，但有不同的意见。最初是有七年工作经验的上海交大化学博士将之翻译成“苯甲脒”，后来博士与海外留学、现仍居美国的资深老化学翻译家多次磋商研讨后，最后一致确定翻译为“甲脒基”。在得出这个翻译后，他们感慨“到底还是交大的PhD厉害，不服气可不行！” 不过我仍然坚持carbamimidoyl应翻译为“脒基”，固执地翻译成“甲脒基”是错误的。也许论坛上还有其他专业人士，你们有什么真知灼见？谢谢！ </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
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<TD vAlign=top><A onmouseover="show('asker_summary');" onmouseout="hide('asker_summary');" href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>
<DIV id=asker_summary onmouseover="show('asker_summary');" style="BORDER-RIGHT: rgb(51,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; BORDER-TOP: rgb(51,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; Z-INDEX: 1000; VISIBILITY: hidden; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(51,102,102) 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 3px; BORDER-BOTTOM: rgb(51,102,102) 1px solid; POSITION: absolute; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,204)" onmouseout="hide('asker_summary');">KudoZ activity Questions: <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=asked">91</A> (<A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=asked&open_only=1&float=1">1 open</A>) Answers: <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered">271</A> </DIV> China </TD>
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<DIV align=center>Note(s) to/from asker 
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<TD align=left><A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Do you have any evidence for this accusation: ‘后来博士与海外留学、现仍居美国的资深老化学翻译家多次磋商研讨后，最后一致确定翻译为“甲脒基”。’？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Could you or anybody else provide a structure for 甲脒, please? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 我在医药行业的时候，常常看到许多专业的医药人士，他们凭借自己掌握的专业知识，合成一伙，诓骗没有多少专业知识的病人钱物，或者多开药吃回扣、吃红包，或者折腾病人进行没有必要的检查化验，等等。面对此种丑陋现象而自己无能为力，内心往往痛苦不已，最后只好选择离开。毕竟一个人的力量相当有限。 医药行业如此，其他行业何尝不是这样呢？在论坛上也常见到许多口口声声专业人士、权威人士的人，言必称专业，不容别人置疑。但其实只要有半点专业文化，就知道他们的专业“理论”“指导”经不起考验，往往错漏百出。我不知道他们是出于无知大意嘛，还是本性如此，故意诓骗，或概而有之。不过这种现象引起了我的警惕，我认为是与医药行业的丑恶腐败现象一样，一脉相承密不可分，而且互加促进。因此，责任所在，不能不站出来澄清。这不是针对某一两个人的问题。我相信，只要人人站出来，众人拾柴火焰高，这种无知或骗人的伎俩，将逐渐被逐出市场。 如果缺乏道德品质，专业的人士要是骗起非专业人士来，凭借专业“理论”多加上各种专业词汇，样子的确就像是囊中探物。我认为，这也是为什么当今国内看病贵看病难问题根深蒂固积重难返的原因所在。 再次声明，以上发言不针对某一两个人，而是一种现象！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: So, it was only your suspicion or imagination that ‘后来博士与海外留学、现仍居美国的资深老化学翻译家多次磋商研讨后，最后一致确定翻译为“甲脒基”。’, isn't it？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Mr. Sun, 你用accusation这个词不对吧？博士先生最初提出一种翻译，后经多次修正，在网上就表现为最少四次，这难道不是多次研讨吗？你也不止一次回应，做出解释，这样在网上一回一应难道不是磋商吗？最后你确定应该翻译为“甲脒基”，博士也同意，作为proz问题的结束，博士最后确定的词就是“甲脒基”呀，难道这不算是最后一致确定吗？而且说你们多次磋商研讨并不是贬义词呀，与其说这个词是贬义不如说是褒义吧？怎么成了accusation了呢？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Apparently, you forgot that it was only you that I responded to and it happend only after that question (see http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1315025) was closed. Moreover, it was me (not Dr. Joysong) who entered the term “甲脒基”. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: You talked a lot about the corruption in the medical system in China. Could please you tell me if it is relevant to this question? If yes, how? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: You said over there that “把carbamimidoyl …… 翻成“甲脒基”同样是滑天下之大稽！！” Now, please prove your above conclusion and prove “甲脒基” is wrong for carbamimidoyl. I will appreciate it very much. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 人难免出错，关键是知错就改就好，不要说专业人士又怎样怎样。就拿这个Carbamimidoyl单词来说，最初是你拿到proz来问大家，joysong的了几次作答，我看就有很多错误嘛。 一开始说是“苯甲脒”，后来补充说“也就是‘亚氨基苯甲胺’，-C6H4-C=NH(NH2)”。不用说Carbamimidoyl翻译成苯甲脒不对，说苯甲脒“也就是‘亚氨基苯甲胺’”更加荒唐。 到后来，joysong有这样的陈述，“命名法来说carbamimidoyl＝guanyl＝amidino都是脒基的名称，其中 carbamimidoyl是系统名称，但不常用”，这个叙述也很有商榷之处。我留意了一下，carbamimidoyl和amidino都是脒基的英文名称，但guanyl这个词有点蹊跷。按中英化学词典，的确guanyl是脒基，但遍查各种英英词典，均解释为是鸟嘌呤基（鸟嘌呤的英文词汇是 guanine，也与guanyl相近）。英中词典中也有翻译为鸟嘌呤基的。脒基也鸟嘌呤基的化学结构差远了。这究竟是怎么回事？词典出现错误是常有的事，但多本词典、多人重复错误，这种情况不多见。我查了资料，发现原来guanyl在英文就是鸟嘌呤基，至于为什么许多人把它看成是脒基，原来是因为 guanyl在德文中是脒基的意思！比如在德英词典中就有Guanyl-Gruppe=amidino group 的词语。<A href="http://englisch.germanien.name/dg15.htm">http://englisch.germanien.name/dg15.htm</A> 在那个proz问题中，我最后列出了结构式，说明我把carbamimidoyl翻译成脒基是正确的，从而证明翻译成苯甲脒不对。但即便这样，仍有人犯错误，认为脒基就是甲脒，这同样也很荒谬。这是源于对脒的概念的无知。基础概念不懂，自然会出现滑稽的错误。 可见一个小小的词汇难倒不少人！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 讨论问题，少些关注个人的得失，多些关注事实、逻辑、理论，这将是讨论变得风趣起来。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Let's focus on this KudoZ question first. Since you have no objection that carbamimidoyl falls in the category of 脒基, could you please count how many carbon atoms is in carbamimidoyl? That will answer this KudoZ question very clearly. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Since carbamimidoyl falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基 and has only ONE carbon atom in it, it is called 甲脒基, just as an 胺基 having only ONE carbon is called 甲胺基. This is a very elementary concept in organic chemistry. Don't you know that? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Joysong changed his answer to 脒基 one hour before you posted your answer. No matter how many changes he made, it is allowed by KudoZ rules. I selected his answer because carbamimidoyl indeed falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基. Anything wrong with that? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: I praised Joysong by saying “到底还是交大的PhD厉害，不服气可不行！” It seems you are not comfortable with my expression of the praise. Is there anything wrong with that? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: I'd like to send what you said above back to you: “讨论问题，少些关注个人的得失，多些关注事实、逻辑、理论，这将是讨论变得风趣起来。” I think it's well said and it's easier said than done, but we should follow i <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun，这样，carbamimidoyl就是脒基，没有脒基类这一说法。所谓“脒基类”这种说法是完全错误的，世上没有“脒基类”。你之所以出现这种错误，是由于对脒和脒基的概念的无知或错误的理解。建议你首先弄清脒和脒基的概念才来讨论问题。没有这些基本知识，讨论不起来。joysong说“苯甲脒也就是‘亚氨基苯甲胺’”，这同样是对脒的概念的无知。 另外，讨论问题归讨论问题，其他话题请就不要说了。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Apparently, you are unable to answer any of my above questions which are closely related to this question. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: To make it much easier for you to understand, "carbamimidoyl" is just one of the members of the 脒基 family and, more specifically, it is caleld 甲脒基. Anyone who has basic common sense will be able to understand it easily! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: I have told you clearly "carbamimidoyl is 脒基". There isn't a saying as "category of 脒基"! It is totally wrong! Can you see that? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun，原谅我，我不能再继续说下去，也许有人会解答你的问题的。在我看来，这是简单的概念和逻辑问题，但你就是无法理解。你再查一下脒和脒基的概念，看看能否理解。如果还不能理解，我希望有其他专业人士能向你解释或指导你。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Don't you understand that 脒 represents a family with a general structure of RC(NH2)=NH? In other words, 脒是一族同类型化合物如甲脒、乙脒等的通称，其通式是RC(NH2)=NH. This is a very basic concept in chemistry. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: It is you, not me, who came for help. It will be difficult to persuade you since you don't understand these basic concepts. Under such a circumstance, no one would be able to help you. Of curse, I never expect that you would admit your mistakes. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Since you described a lot about the corruption in the medical system in China, which is totally irrelevant to this question, why couldn't you answer my above questions, which are totally relevant to this question? Are you out of wrods? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Yes, you are right here。这是脒的概念，所谓脒基就是这个东西-C(NH2)=NH，也就是amidino或carbamimidoyl。这个东西-C(NH2)=NH 是唯一的，没有多个members，以致形成family or category。这下你明白了吧？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 解释到了这个地步，如果还不明白，那可真是。。我也无法帮你了。 请就事论事，其他问题请勿谈！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: You still didn't get it? Please tell me what would you call HN=CHNH2 and CH3-C(NH2)=NH? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: To make it easier for you, what would you call formamidine and acetamidine? Check any dictionaries as you want. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: So, you finally decided to quit? Have you achieved your objectives? Before you quit, make sure you post your another question about guanyl. If you do so, I will make my comments only after other peers do. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Some peers may think that I have been wasting my precious time, but I don't think so because what I said would be helpful to anyone who has common sense. Otherwise, I wouldn't say even a word here! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 等等，sun，你提出一个很有趣的问题，我查一下资料。 我再声明一句，请就事论事！其他无关问题请勿说！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: Could you please point out which part of what I said could be regarded as 无关问题? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 我查了一下，所谓脒基就是：amidino (am·i·dino) (am-ĭ-dēn´o) the chemical group –C(=NH)–NH2. 这是权威英英词典的解释。请看看中文脒基的解释：胍分子去掉一个氨基后的基团叫脒基。胍的分子式是H2NC（=NH）NH2，去掉氨基以后也就是这个东西 –C(=NH)–NH2。 如此，所谓脒基就是一个东西，怎么能说有多个成员，形成一类，carbamimidoyl 只是其中之一呢？如果说是其中之一，那么，请问除了这个东西–C(=NH)–NH2以外，还有那个是脒基呢？ 至于HN=CHNH2 和 CH3-C(NH2)=NH怎么称呼，我觉得有点离题，或许你可以告诉我这两个结构怎么称呼？ 还有如果你称HN=CHNH2 为formamidine，中文词典解释为甲脒，英文词典我暂时找不到这个词的解释。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: I have said many and many times: stay on the problem, do not say any irrelevant subject! "So, you finally decided to quit? Have you achieved your objectives? " ,are these relevent to the subject?! Are these not obviously personal attack? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: If you are able to find out what formamidine and acetamidine are called in Chinese and find out the relationship among amidine, formamidine and acetamidine. You are done! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: "Have you achieved your objectives?" means I will continue to help you if needed. If you regard it as a personal attack, please feel free to complain to the ProZ management. I wrote everything in English just in case you want to make a complain. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun，我查了一下，formamidine和acetamidine中文词典的解释是甲脒和乙脒，英文词典我查不到。但请不要离题。 现在的问题是，词典解释所谓脒基就是这个东西–C(=NH)–NH2，这点你没有异议吧？我想问的是，你说carbamimidoyl仅仅是脒基族（按你的说法family 或 category）中的一个成员，那么还有其他成员，它们是什么呢？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: That's simple: 甲脒 and 乙脒 are two members in the 脒 family. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 注意，你说的是“脒基family”而不是“脒family”！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun先生，恕我直言，讨论问题大家就放开讨论，像你这样处处设防，防人这样防人那样，着实生活没有多大意思。当然这是题外话，你不听就行了，当我没说。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 您的原话：“carbamimidoyl" is just one of the members of the 脒基 family and, more specifically, it is caleld 甲脒基”，“carbamimidoyl indeed falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基”。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun先生，人不是全才，难免犯错，这没有什么了不得的。关键是知道错误，承认了就好。我也不意跟任何人作对。这与我的性格不合，来论坛也就为了学习和乐趣。其他的，我不知道有没有说得不妥的地方，请包涵。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: I have to be very careful. I'd also like to indicate that if anyone launchs any personal attacks or insults here this time, I will file a serious complaint to the ProZ management. I hope you will also write in English as much as possible. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 好主意！但我认为，人有时候生气可能说一些过火的话，但绝不会有意去 launchs any personal attacks or insults。反正在我是不会的。谢谢！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: I hope you will stick on what you just said. Yes, I said “carbamimidoyl (甲脒基) indeed falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基”, which is not in any conflict with the conclusion “甲脒 and 乙脒 are two members in the 脒 family”. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: sun，不要固执了，脒基只有一种，即这个东西–C(=NH)–NH2，没有第二个。说脒基family 或category都是错误的。脒化合物可有多种，比如你说的甲脒、乙脒等等，但脒基只有一个。脒基跟脒化合物是不同的概念，是有区别的。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Since there is 乙脒, what is the structure of 乙脒基？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: I dont know. I somehow think there isnt a phrase as 乙脒基. In a word, it is a wrong phrase. Do you know what is the structure of 乙脒基？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: This is the same as 甲脒基！I think they are all wrong！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: That's to say, you believe 乙脒基 is the same as 甲脒基? <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Do you happen to know what "acetamidinyl" is in Chinese? This might be too easy a question for you. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: If you insist that 脒基 is the correct answer, Joysong still came to 脒基 well before you posted your answer and structure. Do you think I am unfair by selecting his answer? I suggest you go back to work since time is more precious than the 4 point. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: If you believe that guanyl is not a 脒基, but a 鸟嘌呤基. Please post it as a KudoZ question and provide your reasons over there. Otherwise, I will not make any comments. I have too much work to do! Good-bye! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/128793">Chen Star</A>: 姣棤鐤戦棶锛 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 我的意思不是甲脒基等同于乙脒基，而是说这两个词语的问题相同，我认为它们可能都是不存在的。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Sun，我过去就一直说过，根本不是分数的问题，谁会关心这四分？有何意义？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 关于guanyl的翻译，我发现所有我能查到的英英词典都将此词解释是鸟嘌呤基，从结构上来说也像是从单词鸟嘌呤guanine加词尾变化而来的。但在应用上，也有人将guanyl当作脒基应用，这可能是错误的用法。从以上我提供的资料来看，guanyl在德语是脒基的意思，而不是鸟嘌呤基。可能是因为这样，所以有人搞混了。把德语词当成英语词应用了。如果很多人应用就会有约定成俗的问题，但尚未上升到词典的高度，因此，估计也只是在部分人中的一种错误的应用或混用。 <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: 我想sun错误可能是把脒化合物和脒基的概念弄混了。打个比方，羧基和羧酸，这是不同的概念，我们可以说酸类，但没有人会说羧基类或某某基团是羧基之一，因为所谓羧基就是这个东西-COOH，没有第二个。HCOOH是甲酸，CH3COOH是乙酸，但不能说-COOH是甲酸基，或乙酸基吧？ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: If you can't tell me what "acetamidinyl" is in Chinese, I will not make any further comments about carbamimidoyl. I can't help you review and learn all the basics in chemistry. I have told you more than enough! I have a lot of work to do. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: If you don't post “guanyl” as a KudoZ question, I will not make any further comments about guanyl. Period. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: Finally, I'd like to give you a piece of advice: knowing two languages + dictionaries + grammar books doesn't necessarily equal to a good translator. Good-bye! Cheers! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Sun, did you ever admit that you have been wrong? I donot know what "acetamidinyl" is in Chinese. Can you tell me that? Anyway this isn't related to the present problem. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Bye Sun. Cheer up also! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: carbamimidoyl is 脒基， not 甲脒基；脒基 is correct，甲脒基 is wrong。 I am a nobody, graduated from a very common college, have no chance to be educated in the US, know little about chemistry, and have only translated three or four pharmaceutical patents till now, but these don't defer me from the realization that carbamimidoyl is 脒基, not 甲脒基; 脒基 is correct, 甲脒基 is wrong. My reasons and opinions are as the following: (Sun，要敢于面对错误，这是科学的态度) 1) amidine and amidino are different concepts. There are many chemical substances belonging to amidine, but for amidino, there is only one, that is –C(=NH)–NH2. To say there are many members of amidino, or there is a amidino group, is absurd. What you have said, "carbamimidoyl is just one of the members of the 脒基 (amidino) family" and "carbamimidoyl indeed falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基 (amidino) ", are wrong. 2) The concepts of amidine and amidino are just like the concepts of carboxylic acid and carboxyl. THere is only one carboxyl group, but many carboxylic acids. In carboxylic acids, if there is only one carbon, we call it formic acid; if there are two carbons, we call it acetic acid. But, important is, formyl (甲酸基) or acetyl （乙酸基）is totally different from carboxyl group!! These are all basic chemical concepts. This is the same with the case of amidino. 甲脒基 or 乙脒基 is totally different from amidino. 3) in your saying there are 甲脒基（amidino group having one carbon） and 乙脒基（amidino group having two carbons） etc. I would like to ask what are the structues of 甲脒基 and 乙脒基？ Can you show us？ 4）nobody care about the points or which person you have given. We just care about and want to find out which answer is correct, and which one is truth. 4) my reference is only one but no less authority: <A href="http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzpgzEzzSzppdocszSzuszSzcommonzSzdorlandszSzdorlandzSzdmd_a_28zPzhtm#12125390">http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzp...</A> 5) to use only one using case cann't tell the problem. Many English-Chinese dictionaries have lots of errors. In mainland China simplified Chinese circle, these are very common, and many of these dictionaries are most pupular and most authoritative, not to say in Taiwan traditional Chinese circle, and a dictionary for translation . Hope these will help you. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: “Bill: One of the most authoritative organizations in chemical nomenclature is International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC). It is true that “amidino” was often used in the past to represent H2N-C(=NH)-, when the amidino contains only one carbon atom, but it could cause confusion. Therefore, in July 2004, IUPAC introduced the word of “carbamimidoyl” to specifically represent H2N-C(=NH)-. “Carbamimidoyl” is called Preferred IUPAC Name (PIN). That means when an amidino contains only one carbon atom, it is preferred to use “Carbamimidoyl” instead of amidino.” Sun，恕我直言，你的叙述充满错误，给人驳不胜驳的困难。要解答这些问题，在我像是拿火箭打苍蝇。也许刚出校门不久的Joysong愿意帮助你。Joysong或其他人如有时间解答你的问题或说明你的错误错在，我将代您及我本人向他表示谢忱！ 我回过头来想想也不对，sun是有多年化学翻译的老专家，怎么会出现这些基础错误呢？所以我猜想，sun会不会是陷入某一种误区，以致迷失逻辑，不能自拔？不得而知。原joysong能不计前嫌，拨冗鼎力相助！ <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: It's your pattern that you will start personal attacks and insults when you are out of words. If you start personal attacks and insults again this time, I will file a serious complaint to the ProZ management. I am prepared to do that! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: You have already been deprived your privileges to attend the Chinese forum. If you are deprived your opportunity to advertise yourself and apply jobs here at ProZ.com, you life would become much less enjoyable! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: Please use English to make further comments. I am sure you certainly don't want someone you don't trust to translate your insulting words for a ProZ.com investigator. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Ok, please tell me which my words are insulting words, I shall translate it for you. <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: No, thanks! When necessary, I will translate all of your words, which are not in English, for a ProZ.com investigator. The investigator may also choose to use an English-Chinese moderator. So, you'd better use English yourself. Good-bye! <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Thank you. Wishing you good luck！ </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> 
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<TD><A href="http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1319079#3130231">甲脒基 is correct and 脒基 is not wrong</A></TD>
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<TD><A href="http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1319079#3132077">业余人士对专业人士的无知认识</A></TD>
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<TD vAlign=bottom>2 days11 hrs   confidence: <IMG height=5 alt="Answerer confidence 5/5" src="http://www.proz.com/images/blue.gif" width=50> peer agreement (net): +1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top>carbamimidoyl，脒基还是甲脒基？ 业余人士对专业人士的无知认识 有的业余人士对专业人士的一种认识：你是学化学的，那就应该成百上千万种物质，随便哪种名称都应该知道，永远也不要犯错误。实际上也不要对我们那么迷信，总有不太清楚的问题。但是，专业人士和业余的差别就是会充分利用资料，比如carbamimidoyl 这个问题，我很轻松就从学术文献中 （Biochemical Pharmacology, Vol. 58, pp. 1989–1996, 1999，估计就是给了出处那个业余的一辈子也查不到这个文章）查到含有相同基团的物质，而且文中也有结构，然后根据这个基团的结构给出名称。不过还是一时疏忽，把那个物质一长串结构中的苯环多算了一次。还好因为专业上的敏感很快发现并纠正了错误。（或许，我没有做出这个纠正，那个业余的永远也想不起来找这个毛病呢。） 业余人士的另一个严重的不足，也是不会用资料，或者只承认自己看得懂的资料，比如有时把高中的复习资料拿出来当真理，要知道中学里学的那点东西太不够了，比如没有学复数的时候，负数就不能做开方，负数的开方会被老师打叉，但是不要对数学家说，负数的开方是错误的 </TD>
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<TD vAlign=top align=right><A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/121813">joysong</A> China Specializes in field Native speaker of: <A href="javascript:credWindow('http://www.proz.com/?sp=cred/show&id=54119&float=y')"><IMG alt="Native in Chinese" src="http://www.proz.com/images/native_gray.gif" border=0></A>Chinese PRO pts in category: <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/121813?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered&dsid=19">20</A> </TD>
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<TD align=middle>Asker: joysong，如你能说服sun先生，甲脒基不等同于脒基，脒基只有一个没有多个成员，那这个4分就是你了。谢谢！ </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR>
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<TD width=430 bgColor=#f9f2ae><A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: You are quite right! Mistakes due to oversight are substantially different in nature from mistakes due to lack of knowledge. Bias is even more distant from the truth! </TD>
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<TD vAlign=bottom>1 day14 hrs   confidence: <IMG height=5 alt="Answerer confidence 5/5" src="http://www.proz.com/images/blue.gif" width=50> peer agreement (net): +1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top>carbamimidoyl，脒基还是甲脒基？ 甲脒基 is correct and 脒基 is not wrong (Not for grading. Not for Kudoz points. I don't expect you will agree with my answer. I post this answer just as a reference for other interested peers.) 甲脒基 is the official term being used in Taiwan. In cooperation with the outstanding translator Bin Li <A href="http://www.proz.com/pro/1934">http://www.proz.com/pro/1934</A> , a PhD in Chemistry from University of Missouri-Rolla, I translated about half million words of pharmaceutical patent just in the past two years. Most of the patents were filed in Taiwan. Since 甲脒基 is the standard term being used in Taiwan, I am 100% and absolutely sure that it is appropriate to use 甲脒基, at least in Taiwan. Please see the following reference, which also answers your doubt about guanyl: <A href="http://terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/download_20060222145907_70687.xls">http://terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/download_2006022214...</A> Please look at Row 17 and pay attention to the formula therein: “amidino; guanyl; H2NC(=NH)-, 甲脒基”. The formula H2NC(=NH)- is exactly the same as what you provided for my Kudoz question Carbamimidoyl at <A href="http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1315025">http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1315025</A> . I selected Dr. Joysong's answer because his final answer 脒基 is not wrong and he posted that answer one hour BEFORE you posted you answer and provided a relevant structure. I added the prefix 甲 just because carbamimidoyl contains one carbon atom only. In short, 甲脒基 is correct and 脒基 is not wrong. The term 甲脒基 is from 臺灣國立編譯館 <A href="http://terms.nict.gov.tw/about.php">http://terms.nict.gov.tw/about.php</A> “本館成立於民國二十一年六月十四日，直屬教育部，為我國最高編譯機構，掌理關於學術文化書籍及教科圖書編譯事宜。” -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 days1 hr (2006-04-23 05:12:55 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Bill: The reason I mentioned those US patents and Dr. Bin Li is not to humiliate you at all. Please don't think too much. The reason I mentioned those US patents is that since most of the patent applications were filed in Taiwan, the use of 甲脒基 is absolutely justified, even if it would not be accepted in mainland China. Since I mentioned those patents, I would like to indicate that the credit for translating so many US patents belongs to both Bin and me, not only me. The translation agency found us separately. Sometimes, I checked Bin's translation and, in most cases, he checked mine because he was even busier than I was. Both Bin and I are well recognized by many translation agencies and clients. There is no need for either one of us to show our capacities specifically to you. We only show our capacities to translation agencies and clients. I never regard you as my competitor. Please don't worry too much. Now, let's focus on the point. Below are my point-to-point comments on your 5 points: 1) If you know what acetamidinyl and formamidinyl are, you will understand why carbamimidoyl should be called 甲脒基. 2) As to your examples of formyl (甲酸基) or acetyl （乙酸基）, in addition to carboxyl, have you ever heard of another basic concept acyloxy, that is RCOO-? 3) Since you found the structure of 甲脒基, I am sure you will also find the structure of 乙脒基. You may use the key word “acetamidinyl” for your research. 4) Everybody knows very clearly that the purpose you posted this question is NOT to get back those 4 Kudoz points that I gave to Joysong, BUT for something else. The reason I responded to your question is not for Kudoz points, either. The time I have already spent is worth hundreds of US dollars that are much more expensive than 4 Kudoz points. 5) Please contact 臺灣國立編譯館 (National Institute for Compilation and Translation) telling them first that “要敢于面对错误，这是科学的态度”. Please note that the 國立編譯館 was established in 1932 in mainland and moved to Taiwan in 1949. Finally, please also tell yourself: “要敢于面对错误，这是科学的态度”. Hope these will help. -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 days14 hrs (2006-04-23 17:24:21 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- Bill: One of the most authoritative organizations in chemical nomenclature is International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC). It is true that “amidino” was often used in the past to represent H2N-C(=NH)-, when the amidino contains only one carbon atom, but it could cause confusion. Therefore, in July 2004, IUPAC introduced the word of “carbamimidoyl” to specifically represent H2N-C(=NH)-. “Carbamimidoyl” is called Preferred IUPAC Name (PIN). That means when an amidino contains only one carbon atom, it is preferred to use “Carbamimidoyl” instead of amidino. The latest edition of English-Chinese Dictionary of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering was published in 2001. That was why I couldn't find “carbamimidoyl” in this dictionary and other relevant dictionaries before I posted my Kudoz question “Carbamimidoyl” at <A href="http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1315025">http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1315025</A> , where you said that “这么简单的问题出自老专家、专业博士翻译之手，令人震惊！连基本概念都弄不清，何来创新发展、为人民服务之道理？”. It sounds like as if you had already known the word of Carbamimidoyl in your high school or college in 1980s, well before IUPAC created the new word in 2004. In fact, it is very apparent that your opinions are based on some out-of-date information. Your logic is also wrong. Your logic is carbamimidoyl = amidino and amidino = 脒基, therefore, carbamimidoyl = 脒基 and carbamimidoyl ≠ 甲脒基. In fact, your premise “carbamimidoyl = amidino” is wrong in the first place, carbamimidoyl is one type of the amidinos only. I have already given you more than enough help. If there is nothing new, I am not going to make any further comments. Please feel free to reject my opinions, but the earth is still rotating!      Reference: <A href="http://terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/download_20060222145907_70687.xls">http://terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/download_2006022214...</A>     Reference: <A href="http://terms.nict.gov.tw/about.php">http://terms.nict.gov.tw/about.php</A> </TD>
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<TD vAlign=top align=right><IMG title="ProZ.com member" height=10 src="http://www.proz.com/images/plat_tiny.gif" width=10> <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A> United States Specializes in field Native speaker of: <A href="javascript:credWindow('http://www.proz.com/?sp=cred/show&id=3644&float=y')"><IMG alt="Native in Chinese" src="http://www.proz.com/images/native.gif" border=0></A>Chinese PRO pts in category: <A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/32249?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered&dsid=19">468</A> </TD>
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<TD align=middle>Asker: carbamimidoyl is 脒基， not 甲脒基；脒基 is correct，甲脒基 is wrong。 I am a nobody, graduated from a very common college, have no chance to be educated in the US, know little about chemistry, and have only translated three or four pharmaceutical patents till now, but these don't defer me from the realization that carbamimidoyl is 脒基, not 甲脒基; 脒基 is correct, 甲脒基 is wrong. My reasons and opinions are as the following: (Sun，要敢于面对错误，这是科学的态度) 1) amidine and amidino are different concepts. There are many chemical substances belonging to amidine, but for amidino, there is only one, that is –C(=NH)–NH2. To say there are many members of amidino, or there is a amidino group, is absurd. What you have said, "carbamimidoyl is just one of the members of the 脒基 (amidino) family" and "carbamimidoyl indeed falls in the CATEGORY of 脒基 (amidino) ", are wrong. 2) The concepts of amidine and amidino are just like the concepts of carboxylic acid and carboxyl. THere is only one carboxyl group, but many carboxylic acids. In carboxylic acids, if there is only one carbon, we call it formic acid; if there are two carbons, we call it acetic acid. But, important is, formyl (甲酸基) or acetyl （乙酸基）is totally different from carboxyl group!! These are all basic chemical concepts. This is the same with the case of amidino. 甲脒基 or 乙脒基 is totally different from amidino. 3) in your saying there are 甲脒基（amidino group having one carbon） and 乙脒基（amidino group having two carbons） etc. I would like to ask what are the structues of 甲脒基 and 乙脒基？ Can you show us？ 4）nobody care about the points or which person you have given. We just care about and want to find out which answer is correct, and which one is truth. 4) my reference is only one but no less authority: http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cns/cns_hl_dorlands.jspzQzp... 5) to use only one using case cann't tell the problem. Many English-Chinese dictionaries have lots of errors. In mainland China simplified Chinese circle, these are very common, and many of these dictionaries are most pupular and most authoritative, not to say in Taiwan traditional Chinese circle, and a dictionary for translation . Hope these will help you. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR>
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<TD width=430 bgColor=#f9f2ae><A href="http://www.proz.com/profile/121813">joysong</A>: bill is totally wrong because he is lack of basic knowledge of organic chemistry</TD>
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<TD>1 day17 hrs</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD colSpan=3>  -> Yes, you are quite right! Thanks a lot! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD align=middle colSpan=3><A href="http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1319079?login=y">Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

rikokushin · 发表于 2007-5-12 16:38:54

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<TD noWrap bgColor=#ffec8b>英语词条或片语：</TD>
<TD width="100%" bgColor=#ffec8b>Formamidinyl/formamidine</TD></TR>
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<TD noWrap bgColor=#ffec8b>汉语翻译：</TD>
<TD width="100%" bgColor=#ffec8b>甲脒基 / 甲脒</TD></TR>
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<TD><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
<TD style="BORDER-LEFT: #cccc99 1px solid" vAlign=top noWrap>选项： - <A href="javascript:popupwin=window.open('/?sp=kog_vote&action=vote&term_id=1321619','Info','width=620,height=500,scrollbars=yes,resize=yes');popupwin.focus();">对此条目发表意见</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> 
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<TD vAlign=bottom align=left width="33%">9:17pm Apr 22, 2006</TD>
<TD vAlign=bottom align=right width="33%"><A href="http://chi.proz.com/kudoz/1321619?login=y">Login</A> or <A href="http://chi.proz.com/?sp=r">register</A> (free) for more options.</TD></TR></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TH bgColor=#cccc99 colSpan=2>英语至汉语翻译 [专业] 法律/专利 - 化学；化学学科/化学工程 / Pharmaceutical </TH></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffec8b>英语词条或片语： Formamidinyl/formamidine</TD></TR>
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<TD>Thank you in advance! Context: 14. The compound of claim 9, wherein: Ar is 553 and R.sup.7 is selected from … acetamidinyl, formamidinyl, optionally substituted imidazolinyl, …. 35. … N'-(3-{[(6,7-Dimethoxy-4-oxo-1,4-dihydro-quinazolin-2-yl)-methyl-amino]-m- ethyl}-phenyl)-N,N-dimethyl-formamidine; … See the entire patent claims at: <A href="http://www.freshpatents.com/Arylamine-substituted-quinazolinone-compounds-useful-as-alpha-1a-b-adrenergic-receptor-antagonists-dt20050217ptan20050038016.php?type=claims">http://www.freshpatents.com/Arylamine-substituted-quinazolin...</A> </TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
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<TD vAlign=top><A onmouseover="show('asker_summary');" onmouseout="hide('asker_summary');" href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249"><IMG src="http://chi.proz.com/images/plat_tiny.gif" border=0> Yueyin Sun</A>
<DIV id=asker_summary onmouseover="show('asker_summary');" style="BORDER-RIGHT: #336666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3px; BORDER-TOP: #336666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3px; Z-INDEX: 1000; VISIBILITY: hidden; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3px; BORDER-LEFT: #336666 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 3px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #336666 1px solid; POSITION: absolute; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffcc" onmouseout="hide('asker_summary');">KudoZ活动 问题： <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=asked">86</A> (全部已关闭的) 回答： <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered">818</A> </DIV> 美国 </TD>
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<TD align=left><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Can you tell us what is the structure of Formamidinyl/formamidine? <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: No, if I had the structures, I would be able to answer this question myself and wouldn't need to post this question. That's why I will need your expertise. Thank you for asking! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: NKWong，请参加我附加的notes。将基团H2NC(=NH)-翻译成“甲脒基”，或认为“甲脒基”就是“脒基”都是完全错误的！ <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: NKWong，请参见我附加的notes。将基团H2NC(=NH)-翻译成“甲脒基”，或认为“甲脒基”就是“脒基”都是完全错误的！ <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Dear Mr. NKWong, I am very sorry to know that you have misunderstood me. Hear I only concerns about truth and right! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: NKWong, I now figure out your idea. No doubt, formamidine is 甲脒, and its structure is H2NC(=NH)H. But in my opinion, 甲脒基 isn't H2NC(=NH)-. It is 脒基。Perhaps we are different in this. <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: It is just like the case of carboxyl (羧基)and formic acid (甲酸). -COOH is 羧基, HCOOH is 甲酸, but 甲酸基 isn't -COOH(羧基)! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Dear Mr. NKWong, I am very sorry to know that you have misunderstood me. Hear I only concerns about truth and right! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: According to your opinion, should the above Claim 14 be translated as follows? "14. The compound of claim 9, wherein: Ar is 553 and R.sup.7 is selected from …脒基(acetamidinyl), 脒基(formamidinyl), optionally substituted imidazolinyl, …." ??? <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: Sun，你不要弄错，我的观点一直是“脒基”与“甲脒基”不同，完全不是acetamidinyl、formamidinyl就是“脒基”。只有你才认为acetamidinyl、formamidinyl都是“脒基”！ <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: Then, what do you think acetamidinyl and formamidinyl are in Chinese? Let's focus to the point. If you don't know what they are, please don't bother. Thank you! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: acetamidinyl 和 formamidinyl 的确切结构我不知道，但我确切知道，它们的结构绝对不是H2NC(=NH)-即脒基！它们也不是所谓的脒基members！我说得这么明白，这下你该没有异议了吧？ <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/32249">Yueyin Sun</A>: Bill: Since you don't know the actual structures of acetamidinyl and formamidinyl, how can you get to your conclusion? I think it's time to put this to an end. I have a lot of work to do. I am sure you also have a lot to do. Thank you! <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: But Sun, I know that amidino (脒基) is H2NC(=NH)-, acetamidinyl and formamidinyl aren't H2NC(=NH)-, so they are not amidino. Furthermore, there is only one amidino, never two or many members as you said. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV> </TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top>业余答案, 甲脒基是台湾说法。。。 HN=CH-NH2 <A href="http://images.google.com/images?q=formamidine&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&start=20&sa=N">http://images.google.com/images?q=formamidine&svnum=10&hl=en...</A> [XLS] Sheet1File Format: Microsoft Excel - View as HTML 17, amidino; guanyl, H2NC(=NH)-, 甲脒基. 18, amido, RCO(NH)-, 醯胺基. 19, amino, H2N-, 胺基. 20, amidoxalyl; oxamoyl, H2NCOCO-, 醯胺草醯基；草醯胺醯基 ... terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/ download_20060222145907_70687.xls - Similar pages - Remove result 單甲脒(Formamidine)生產技朮... 單甲脒是一種新型有機氮殺劑，是防治滿類，特別是抗性類的一種理想藥劑。結構式如下：. ... 25％單甲脒水劑 0.0125％ 91.3%. ... liuyifeng.nease.net/BIG5/liu03-06.htm - 35k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result [ More results from liuyifeng.nease.net ] 胺類 - [ Translate this page ][ 簡體 ]乙酸甲脒（formamidine acetate）無圖 · 點此給我留言阿里巴巴建議您優先選擇誠信通會員 10 · 乙酸甲脒（formamidine acetate） ... list.china.alibaba.com/buyer/productlist/80311.html - 102k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result THIOUREA DIOXIDE (FORMAMIDINE SULFINIC ACID)FORMULA, H2NC(=NH)SO2H. MOL WT. 108.11. HS CODE. 2930.90. TOXICITY. SYNONYMS, Formamidine sulfinic acid; FAS;. Methanesulfinic acid, Aminoimino ... <A href="http://www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/">www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/</A> finechem/THIOUREA%20DIOXIDE.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD>
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<DIV align=center>选择响应自：</DIV> <A onmouseover="fixedtooltip(' 专精该领域 ', this, event, '170px')" onmouseout=delayhidetip() href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/133221">Naikei Wong</A> 香港 </TD></TR>
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<TD align=left>NKWong: You are absolutely correct! Let's go back to work! Thank you all! 已将4分KudoZ分数奖给了此答案 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> 
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<TH bgColor=#cccc99 colSpan=3>所提供的全部汉语翻译如下：</TH></TR>
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<TD><A href="http://chi.proz.com/kudoz/1321619#3133225">try</A></TD>
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<TD vAlign=bottom>38分钟   信心度： <IMG height=5 alt="Answerer confidence 3/5" src="http://chi.proz.com/images/blue.gif" width=30><IMG height=5 alt="Answerer confidence 3/5" src="http://chi.proz.com/images/brown.gif" width=20> 同仁同意（净值）： +2</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top>formamidinyl/formamidine 甲脒基 / 單甲脒 (甲脒) 业余答案, 甲脒基是台湾说法。。。 HN=CH-NH2 <A href="http://images.google.com/images?q=formamidine&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&start=20&sa=N">http://images.google.com/images?q=formamidine&svnum=10&hl=en...</A> [XLS] Sheet1File Format: Microsoft Excel - View as HTML 17, amidino; guanyl, H2NC(=NH)-, 甲脒基. 18, amido, RCO(NH)-, 醯胺基. 19, amino, H2N-, 胺基. 20, amidoxalyl; oxamoyl, H2NCOCO-, 醯胺草醯基；草醯胺醯基 ... terms.nict.gov.tw/upload/download/ download_20060222145907_70687.xls - Similar pages - Remove result 單甲脒(Formamidine)生產技朮... 單甲脒是一種新型有機氮殺劑，是防治滿類，特別是抗性類的一種理想藥劑。結構式如下：. ... 25％單甲脒水劑 0.0125％ 91.3%. ... liuyifeng.nease.net/BIG5/liu03-06.htm - 35k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result [ More results from liuyifeng.nease.net ] 胺類 - [ Translate this page ][ 簡體 ]乙酸甲脒（formamidine acetate）無圖 · 點此給我留言阿里巴巴建議您優先選擇誠信通會員 10 · 乙酸甲脒（formamidine acetate） ... list.china.alibaba.com/buyer/productlist/80311.html - 102k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result THIOUREA DIOXIDE (FORMAMIDINE SULFINIC ACID)FORMULA, H2NC(=NH)SO2H. MOL WT. 108.11. HS CODE. 2930.90. TOXICITY. SYNONYMS, Formamidine sulfinic acid; FAS;. Methanesulfinic acid, Aminoimino ... <A href="http://www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/">www.chemicalland21.com/specialtychem/</A> finechem/THIOUREA%20DIOXIDE.htm - 33k - Cached - Similar pages - Remove result </TD>
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<TD vAlign=top align=right><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/133221">Naikei Wong</A> 香港 专精该领域 母语：英语, 汉语 此类别中专业问题的积分： <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/133221?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered&dsid=19">38</A> </TD>
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<TD align=left>NKWong: You are absolutely correct! Let's go back to work! Thank you all!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV></TD></TR>
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<TD align=middle>提问者： NKWong, Thank you very much for your time and the information you provided! I am going to wait for a few more days to see if any different opinions will come out. Your patience will be appreciated! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top noWrap width=70 bgColor=#f9f2ae>同意 </TD>
<TD width=430 bgColor=#f9f2ae><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/133874">Yang Min</A></TD>
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<TD>2小时</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD colSpan=3>  -> Thanks Minoer!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top noWrap width=70 bgColor=#f9f2ae>同意 </TD>
<TD width=430 bgColor=#f9f2ae><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/134781">IC</A></TD>
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<TD>9小时</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR>
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<TD colSpan=3>  -> thanks again..;)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top noWrap width=70 bgColor=#f9f2ae>中性态度 </TD>
<TD width=430 bgColor=#f9f2ae><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A>: NK，某一两个应用个案往往不能说明问题，譬如“昨日黄花”是个错误词汇，但你搜索一下会发现很多应用例子，</TD>
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<TD colSpan=3>  -> Thank you Bill for sharing with me. I understand your concerns...:).... in English it's much more stratighforward... "form-" denotes just one carbon atom being in the "R" group (as in formaldehyde)... the Google images show this structure. Cheers</TD></TR></FORM></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=bottom>1天3小时   信心度： <IMG height=5 alt="Answerer confidence 5/5" src="http://chi.proz.com/images/blue.gif" width=50></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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<TD vAlign=top>formamidinyl/formamidine try Sun, 我说过，所谓脒基（英文名称为carbamimidoyl和amidino）就是这个东西-C(=NH)NH2，而且只有一个，没有其他。但你说这个仅仅是脒基类中的成员之一。那么我想问问，除了这个脒基类成员以外，你能否再举一个其他脒基成员的例子？ -------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day12 hrs (2006-04-24 09:29:20 GMT) -------------------------------------------------- 某一两个应用个案往往不能说明问题，譬如“昨日黄花”是个错误词汇，但你搜索一下会发现竟然有很多应用例子！ 词典应该是最权威的参考工具，但错误也不少，尤其涉及专业词汇。比如对 ethoxyl的翻译，ethoxyl的化学式是C2H 5O -，中文应翻译为乙氧基，可是你查多本词典，包括最权威的专业词典，如《英汉化学词典》、《英汉环境词典》、《英汉经贸词典》、《英汉计算机大词典》和双解美国传统词典，都把它错翻译为“羟乙基”。如此，多本词典都会出现专业上的常识性错误，更何况是某一些人的某一些个应用实例，更何况是某单一本词典！ 那么，面对这种情况，连作为标准依据的词典都会出现错讹，我们做翻译的就此束手无策了呢？或依据词典将错就错无可非议呢？不是的，作为专业的翻译，我们有基础理论，我们自我能判断对错。片面依赖词典、应用个案，本身就不是科学的态度。词典、应用实例只是专业翻译的一种参考。 </TD>
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<TD vAlign=top align=right><A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947">Bill Lao</A> 中国大陆 母语：汉语 此类别中专业问题的积分： <A href="http://chi.proz.com/profile/101947?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=answered&dsid=19">29</A> </TD>
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<TD align=middle colSpan=3>给答者的备注 
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<TD align=middle>提问者： I think NKWong has already answered your question at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1321453 . I know that is difficult for you to understand. If you think his answer is wrong, you can post your opinions and reasons over there. Thank you! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> </TD></TR>
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<TD align=middle colSpan=3><A href="http://chi.proz.com/kudoz/1321619?login=y">Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)</A></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></A>

rikokushin · 发表于 2007-5-12 16:40:56

http://chi.proz.com/kudoz/1321619
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1319079

希望能够给广大专业翻译者一点启示吧

mankin · 发表于 2007-5-14 01:24:39

太专业了，对一般的文档翻译来说真是有种开眼界的感觉－－b

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